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	<title>Comments on: Random good and bad deals for Oct 9-13, 2006</title>
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	<description>A site to share my tips, tools, and humble thoughts on the journey to wealth</description>
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		<title>By: landlordhustlers</title>
		<link>http://www.1stMillionAt33.com/2006/10/random-good-and-bad-deals-for-oct-9-13-2006/comment-page-1/#comment-2036</link>
		<dc:creator>landlordhustlers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Dec 2006 08:50:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.1stMillionAt33.com/2006/10/random-good-and-bad-deals/#comment-2036</guid>
		<description>If buying loan point is a stupid idea, what about selling loan point? Say i&#039;m buying a house to flip. I don&#039;t want to pay any closing cost. I want free money from my lender, which i&#039;m willing to paying higher interest. I intend to fix the house up and flip it in a three months period. If I want to keep the house to rent, then I&#039;ll refinance using a HELOC. Most Heloc has no fees whatsoever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If buying loan point is a stupid idea, what about selling loan point? Say i&#8217;m buying a house to flip. I don&#8217;t want to pay any closing cost. I want free money from my lender, which i&#8217;m willing to paying higher interest. I intend to fix the house up and flip it in a three months period. If I want to keep the house to rent, then I&#8217;ll refinance using a HELOC. Most Heloc has no fees whatsoever.</p>
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		<title>By: Frugal</title>
		<link>http://www.1stMillionAt33.com/2006/10/random-good-and-bad-deals-for-oct-9-13-2006/comment-page-1/#comment-1541</link>
		<dc:creator>Frugal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Oct 2006 04:34:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.1stMillionAt33.com/2006/10/random-good-and-bad-deals/#comment-1541</guid>
		<description>Thanks Sanjay for the extra info.  Actually, it&#039;s not as bad as I thought.  It&#039;s some $25K that you need to have it tied up, but for bigger portfolio, it can be economical indeed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Sanjay for the extra info.  Actually, it&#8217;s not as bad as I thought.  It&#8217;s some $25K that you need to have it tied up, but for bigger portfolio, it can be economical indeed.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Nusbaum</title>
		<link>http://www.1stMillionAt33.com/2006/10/random-good-and-bad-deals-for-oct-9-13-2006/comment-page-1/#comment-1539</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Nusbaum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Oct 2006 14:03:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.1stMillionAt33.com/2006/10/random-good-and-bad-deals/#comment-1539</guid>
		<description>WAMU cahrges no origination and no points for their entire array of ARMs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WAMU cahrges no origination and no points for their entire array of ARMs.</p>
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		<title>By: sanjay</title>
		<link>http://www.1stMillionAt33.com/2006/10/random-good-and-bad-deals-for-oct-9-13-2006/comment-page-1/#comment-1538</link>
		<dc:creator>sanjay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Oct 2006 14:00:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.1stMillionAt33.com/2006/10/random-good-and-bad-deals/#comment-1538</guid>
		<description>Does Offer for Free Trading Pay?

Bank of America Brokerage Pitch Is Convenient, but Ties Up Funds
October 14, 2006; Page B1
There&#039;s a new free-trade zone in the U.S. Now, you&#039;ve got to figure out whether you want to do business there.

On Wednesday, Bank of America started giving away up to 30 free online stock trades per month to anyone with at least $25,000 in one of the bank&#039;s deposit accounts. The offer&#039;s good in 10 Northeastern states and will roll out nationwide by February. Several of the bank&#039;s competitors saw their stock prices drop, reflecting investors&#039; sense that Charles Schwab, E*Trade and the like will have to match. Almost immediately, both declined to do so. We&#039;ll see.

So what&#039;s behind the price cut? Big banks want more customers to house their investments there, too. Meanwhile, online (and old-fashioned) brokers are trying to persuade more customers to borrow mortgage money and conduct everyday checking with them, too. The question for consumers is whether the convenience of doing everything in one place is outweighed by lower interest rates or higher fees.

To answer it for Bank of America, check some of the finer print in its offer: The only free trades are the ones you make online; you can&#039;t use a broker. Then, you need a cumulative total of $25,000 in &quot;deposit&quot; accounts. Your stocks and mutual funds don&#039;t count. Here&#039;s what will: checking, savings and bank money-market accounts; certificates of deposit; small-business deposit accounts; and individual retirement accounts that only contain FDIC-insured products like CDs.

 
It&#039;s a long list, but $25,000 is a lot to keep in cash-like vehicles. That&#039;s particularly true given that Bank of America doesn&#039;t offer the highest interest rates in the land. If you could do one-half of one percentage point better anyplace else, in a year you&#039;d lose $125 for every $25,000 invested at the bank.

That $125 would pay for a dozen or so trades at many of Bank of America&#039;s competitors. Given that over half of all brokerage customers make five or less trades per year, according to Dan Schatt of research firm Celent, they&#039;d do just fine by staying put.

For those who buy and hold mutual funds, it&#039;s worth considering another factor: While stock and exchange-traded funds qualify for the free trades, not all mutual funds do. BofA&#039;s brokerage arm lets customers trade over 1,200 funds free, though here too it isn&#039;t the most generous industry player.

Still, active stock traders who, for whatever reason, need or want to keep lots of cash on hand, could benefit here. Also, a cash-hoarding investor who also rebalances a portfolio stocked with ETFs twice each year might save money on those trades. Then again, they could make more by going elsewhere and setting up an online savings account for their cash that pays more than Bank of America does on its accounts.

Tim Maloney, president of the bank&#039;s investment-services group, says he figured that people would look solely at the stock-trading aspect of the bank&#039;s move at first. &quot;But this is more about long-term customer relationships,&quot; he says, with &quot;those that will appreciate the breadth and depth of what we offer and want to consolidate.&quot;

Indeed, the bricks, the mortar, the history and the long list of bank services offer convenience and a degree of comfort. The question you have to ask yourself is whether they will make you more money

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB116076989611892216.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does Offer for Free Trading Pay?</p>
<p>Bank of America Brokerage Pitch Is Convenient, but Ties Up Funds<br />
October 14, 2006; Page B1<br />
There&#8217;s a new free-trade zone in the U.S. Now, you&#8217;ve got to figure out whether you want to do business there.</p>
<p>On Wednesday, Bank of America started giving away up to 30 free online stock trades per month to anyone with at least $25,000 in one of the bank&#8217;s deposit accounts. The offer&#8217;s good in 10 Northeastern states and will roll out nationwide by February. Several of the bank&#8217;s competitors saw their stock prices drop, reflecting investors&#8217; sense that Charles Schwab, E*Trade and the like will have to match. Almost immediately, both declined to do so. We&#8217;ll see.</p>
<p>So what&#8217;s behind the price cut? Big banks want more customers to house their investments there, too. Meanwhile, online (and old-fashioned) brokers are trying to persuade more customers to borrow mortgage money and conduct everyday checking with them, too. The question for consumers is whether the convenience of doing everything in one place is outweighed by lower interest rates or higher fees.</p>
<p>To answer it for Bank of America, check some of the finer print in its offer: The only free trades are the ones you make online; you can&#8217;t use a broker. Then, you need a cumulative total of $25,000 in &#8220;deposit&#8221; accounts. Your stocks and mutual funds don&#8217;t count. Here&#8217;s what will: checking, savings and bank money-market accounts; certificates of deposit; small-business deposit accounts; and individual retirement accounts that only contain FDIC-insured products like CDs.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a long list, but $25,000 is a lot to keep in cash-like vehicles. That&#8217;s particularly true given that Bank of America doesn&#8217;t offer the highest interest rates in the land. If you could do one-half of one percentage point better anyplace else, in a year you&#8217;d lose $125 for every $25,000 invested at the bank.</p>
<p>That $125 would pay for a dozen or so trades at many of Bank of America&#8217;s competitors. Given that over half of all brokerage customers make five or less trades per year, according to Dan Schatt of research firm Celent, they&#8217;d do just fine by staying put.</p>
<p>For those who buy and hold mutual funds, it&#8217;s worth considering another factor: While stock and exchange-traded funds qualify for the free trades, not all mutual funds do. BofA&#8217;s brokerage arm lets customers trade over 1,200 funds free, though here too it isn&#8217;t the most generous industry player.</p>
<p>Still, active stock traders who, for whatever reason, need or want to keep lots of cash on hand, could benefit here. Also, a cash-hoarding investor who also rebalances a portfolio stocked with ETFs twice each year might save money on those trades. Then again, they could make more by going elsewhere and setting up an online savings account for their cash that pays more than Bank of America does on its accounts.</p>
<p>Tim Maloney, president of the bank&#8217;s investment-services group, says he figured that people would look solely at the stock-trading aspect of the bank&#8217;s move at first. &#8220;But this is more about long-term customer relationships,&#8221; he says, with &#8220;those that will appreciate the breadth and depth of what we offer and want to consolidate.&#8221;</p>
<p>Indeed, the bricks, the mortar, the history and the long list of bank services offer convenience and a degree of comfort. The question you have to ask yourself is whether they will make you more money</p>
<p><a href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB116076989611892216.html" rel="nofollow">http://online.wsj.com/article/SB116076989611892216.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Frugal</title>
		<link>http://www.1stMillionAt33.com/2006/10/random-good-and-bad-deals-for-oct-9-13-2006/comment-page-1/#comment-1537</link>
		<dc:creator>Frugal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Oct 2006 03:38:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.1stMillionAt33.com/2006/10/random-good-and-bad-deals/#comment-1537</guid>
		<description>The interest only loan at Mtg is truly a zero point.  The only fees due to Mtg is the lender fee of $1250, and the rest is third party fee.
WAMU has 1.0% origination point.  So it is not an apple-to-apple comparison.  An more equivalent way of comparing WAMU and Mtg is use 1.0% point for Mtg which will give you 5.375% interest rate, much lower than WAMU&#039;s 5.75%.

I&#039;m sure there are other details that cannot be shown.  But the comparison of Mtg at 5.375% and WAMU&#039;s 5.75% is fairly apple-to-apple I think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The interest only loan at Mtg is truly a zero point.  The only fees due to Mtg is the lender fee of $1250, and the rest is third party fee.<br />
WAMU has 1.0% origination point.  So it is not an apple-to-apple comparison.  An more equivalent way of comparing WAMU and Mtg is use 1.0% point for Mtg which will give you 5.375% interest rate, much lower than WAMU&#8217;s 5.75%.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure there are other details that cannot be shown.  But the comparison of Mtg at 5.375% and WAMU&#8217;s 5.75% is fairly apple-to-apple I think.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Nusbaum</title>
		<link>http://www.1stMillionAt33.com/2006/10/random-good-and-bad-deals-for-oct-9-13-2006/comment-page-1/#comment-1536</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Nusbaum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Oct 2006 03:16:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.1stMillionAt33.com/2006/10/random-good-and-bad-deals/#comment-1536</guid>
		<description>http://www.mtgcapital.com/ratesheet-interestonly.html?state=ca&amp;rs=interestonly
Interest only, 5 year zero points = 5.75%</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.mtgcapital.com/ratesheet-interestonly.html?state=ca&amp;rs=interestonly" rel="nofollow">http://www.mtgcapital.com/ratesheet-interestonly.html?state=ca&amp;rs=interestonly</a><br />
Interest only, 5 year zero points = 5.75%</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Nusbaum</title>
		<link>http://www.1stMillionAt33.com/2006/10/random-good-and-bad-deals-for-oct-9-13-2006/comment-page-1/#comment-1535</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Nusbaum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Oct 2006 03:15:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.1stMillionAt33.com/2006/10/random-good-and-bad-deals/#comment-1535</guid>
		<description>http://www.mtgcapital.com/ratesheet-fixed.html?state=ca&amp;rs=fixed&amp;r=1</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.mtgcapital.com/ratesheet-fixed.html?state=ca&amp;rs=fixed&amp;r=1" rel="nofollow">http://www.mtgcapital.com/ratesheet-fixed.html?state=ca&amp;rs=fixed&amp;r=1</a></p>
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		<title>By: Frugal</title>
		<link>http://www.1stMillionAt33.com/2006/10/random-good-and-bad-deals-for-oct-9-13-2006/comment-page-1/#comment-1534</link>
		<dc:creator>Frugal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Oct 2006 03:07:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.1stMillionAt33.com/2006/10/random-good-and-bad-deals/#comment-1534</guid>
		<description>Larry,

  You probably have a long relationship with WAMU.  If your deal is not available to most other people, it&#039;s not helpful.

  I&#039;m simply doing apple-to-apple comparison.  Using 15/30 years fixed is a very good data point.  If you can beat on 15 or 30 years fixed, usually you can beat on other types of loans.  Other types of loans have other misc. that you need to pay attention to, such as the margin rate, or type of index, etc.

  I&#039;m not sure what you meant by 5/1 I/O ARM.  At Mtg Capital, the rate for 5 year fixed ARM is &lt;a href=&quot;http://ratesearch.myersinternet.com/ratesearch/JProcess_Search.cfm?ts=074531PM&amp;RequestTimeout=50000#anchResults&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;5.25% for 1.0% loan point&lt;/a&gt;, or 5.625% for 0 point.  I think it&#039;s better than 5.75% even assuming that you got WAMU to waive 1.0% origination point for you.

  Not sure where you get those numbers from.  Maybe you could cut &amp; paste the link?

  The 15 year fixed with 1 point was 5.375%.  Why wouldn&#039;t you get a longer term fixed, when the 5 year fixed is at 5.25% for a tiny fraction of 1/8 interest (or in your case, 5.75% even higher for a shorter term)?

  Mtg Capital is not the only lenders out there.  If you use Costco lending services, theirs is almost as good as Mtg Capital when I compared 3 years ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Larry,</p>
<p>  You probably have a long relationship with WAMU.  If your deal is not available to most other people, it&#8217;s not helpful.</p>
<p>  I&#8217;m simply doing apple-to-apple comparison.  Using 15/30 years fixed is a very good data point.  If you can beat on 15 or 30 years fixed, usually you can beat on other types of loans.  Other types of loans have other misc. that you need to pay attention to, such as the margin rate, or type of index, etc.</p>
<p>  I&#8217;m not sure what you meant by 5/1 I/O ARM.  At Mtg Capital, the rate for 5 year fixed ARM is <a href="http://ratesearch.myersinternet.com/ratesearch/JProcess_Search.cfm?ts=074531PM&#038;RequestTimeout=50000#anchResults" rel="nofollow">5.25% for 1.0% loan point</a>, or 5.625% for 0 point.  I think it&#8217;s better than 5.75% even assuming that you got WAMU to waive 1.0% origination point for you.</p>
<p>  Not sure where you get those numbers from.  Maybe you could cut &#038; paste the link?</p>
<p>  The 15 year fixed with 1 point was 5.375%.  Why wouldn&#8217;t you get a longer term fixed, when the 5 year fixed is at 5.25% for a tiny fraction of 1/8 interest (or in your case, 5.75% even higher for a shorter term)?</p>
<p>  Mtg Capital is not the only lenders out there.  If you use Costco lending services, theirs is almost as good as Mtg Capital when I compared 3 years ago.</p>
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		<title>By: Frugal</title>
		<link>http://www.1stMillionAt33.com/2006/10/random-good-and-bad-deals-for-oct-9-13-2006/comment-page-1/#comment-1533</link>
		<dc:creator>Frugal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Oct 2006 02:49:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.1stMillionAt33.com/2006/10/random-good-and-bad-deals/#comment-1533</guid>
		<description>Sanjay.  Thanks for your input.  I wonder whether you can give me more details.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sanjay.  Thanks for your input.  I wonder whether you can give me more details.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Nusbaum</title>
		<link>http://www.1stMillionAt33.com/2006/10/random-good-and-bad-deals-for-oct-9-13-2006/comment-page-1/#comment-1528</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Nusbaum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Oct 2006 17:51:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.1stMillionAt33.com/2006/10/random-good-and-bad-deals/#comment-1528</guid>
		<description>Frugal: there is no doubt that goods and services, acquired over the internet, on balance, are cheaper than those involving direct contact.
That being said, I am against the purchase of a 30 year fixed rate loan.
Now, with a relationship with a direct lender, WAMU, it is very possible to negotiate down (or out) the origination fee. Also, a rule of mine on my weekly mortgage update each Saturday.

Now, for comparison&#039;s sake, I am in the process (coincidentally)of refinancing a SFR rental in Arrowhead Ranch with WAMU: 5-1 I/O ARM quoting a 5.75% (locked) and a 6.849% APR compared to Mgt Cap @ 5.75% and a 7.151 APR for owner occupied. WAMU won that one, hands down.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frugal: there is no doubt that goods and services, acquired over the internet, on balance, are cheaper than those involving direct contact.<br />
That being said, I am against the purchase of a 30 year fixed rate loan.<br />
Now, with a relationship with a direct lender, WAMU, it is very possible to negotiate down (or out) the origination fee. Also, a rule of mine on my weekly mortgage update each Saturday.</p>
<p>Now, for comparison&#8217;s sake, I am in the process (coincidentally)of refinancing a SFR rental in Arrowhead Ranch with WAMU: 5-1 I/O ARM quoting a 5.75% (locked) and a 6.849% APR compared to Mgt Cap @ 5.75% and a 7.151 APR for owner occupied. WAMU won that one, hands down.</p>
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		<title>By: sanjay</title>
		<link>http://www.1stMillionAt33.com/2006/10/random-good-and-bad-deals-for-oct-9-13-2006/comment-page-1/#comment-1526</link>
		<dc:creator>sanjay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Oct 2006 09:55:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.1stMillionAt33.com/2006/10/random-good-and-bad-deals/#comment-1526</guid>
		<description>wsj has a story on the boa free trade deal. Turns out its a rotten deal from many aspects. Stick with the lost cost brokerages for now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wsj has a story on the boa free trade deal. Turns out its a rotten deal from many aspects. Stick with the lost cost brokerages for now.</p>
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		<title>By: Frugal</title>
		<link>http://www.1stMillionAt33.com/2006/10/random-good-and-bad-deals-for-oct-9-13-2006/comment-page-1/#comment-1523</link>
		<dc:creator>Frugal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Oct 2006 06:24:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.1stMillionAt33.com/2006/10/random-good-and-bad-deals/#comment-1523</guid>
		<description>Here is the rates from &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.wamuhomeloans.com/rates/index.ognc?recalculate=yes&amp;loanPurpose=Refinance&amp;loanAmount=300000&amp;propertyType=CONDOMINIUM&amp;state=CA&amp;points=0.00&amp;Recalculate.x=33&amp;Recalculate.y=11&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Washington Mutual&lt;/a&gt;.  Their rates are as &lt;b&gt;TERRIBLE&lt;/b&gt; as CountryWide.  The points they charge becomes the &quot;origination&quot; point.  30 year fixed is at 6.375%, and 15 year fixed is at 6.000% with 1 point of origination fee.

Larry, please do some homework before you post your comment.  Once you find a better deal, you could let people know.  But a terrible deal is not good for anyone.

Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is the rates from <a href="http://www.wamuhomeloans.com/rates/index.ognc?recalculate=yes&#038;loanPurpose=Refinance&#038;loanAmount=300000&#038;propertyType=CONDOMINIUM&#038;state=CA&#038;points=0.00&#038;Recalculate.x=33&#038;Recalculate.y=11" rel="nofollow">Washington Mutual</a>.  Their rates are as <b>TERRIBLE</b> as CountryWide.  The points they charge becomes the &#8220;origination&#8221; point.  30 year fixed is at 6.375%, and 15 year fixed is at 6.000% with 1 point of origination fee.</p>
<p>Larry, please do some homework before you post your comment.  Once you find a better deal, you could let people know.  But a terrible deal is not good for anyone.</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Nusbaum</title>
		<link>http://www.1stMillionAt33.com/2006/10/random-good-and-bad-deals-for-oct-9-13-2006/comment-page-1/#comment-1520</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Nusbaum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Oct 2006 16:16:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.1stMillionAt33.com/2006/10/random-good-and-bad-deals/#comment-1520</guid>
		<description>Washington Mutual and the rest is easy.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Washington Mutual and the rest is easy&#8230;..</p>
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